Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

[Gil]

I assume that this sticker map is like the ones being used on Viva buses right?

I don't know if this has been discussed before or not: way back when they were planning the Yonge line, was the original plan to construct local and express tracks? I remember reading somewhere (not 100% for sure) that the plan was opposed due to the large amount of space that would of been needed for 4 tracks, but if this was the case was the idea of stacking them ever presented if so what was the drawback to this?

I would presume the additional costs involved were a significant reason. Keep in mind when the original Yonge Line was built it was paid for completely by the TTC with no outside funding. I don't know if they wanted to entertain the idea of outside funding at the time it was being built. Stacking the tracks also poses some additional problems, like how do the trains access the lower tracks? The only option I can think of is when the tracks surface, presuming that you'd have four tracks for the portion from Rosedale to Eglinton.

[York Transit]

I was looking at the designs for York University subway station at Vari Hall today.

Apparently the walls leading from the subway to the concourse will be clad in LCD squares that constantly flicker from white to black to create a wall of movement. I don't think we've seen anything like it on the TTC. It certainly will be one of the "wow" stations of the TTC (in addition to Downsview, Dupont, etc).

Looks neat, I have no idea why the TTC is spending money on this extravagance. Once it fails, it'll probably be abandoned like the Arc-en-Ciel at Yorkdale.

[YRT-Guy]

Umm.. I didn't see this mentioned anywhere, sooooo...

TTC is now on Google Maps!!

Here's the Torontoist article link: http://torontoist.com/2010/10/ttc_is_now_on_google_maps.php

[smallspy]

I don't know if this has been discussed before or not: way back when they were planning the Yonge line, was the original plan to construct local and express tracks?

Nope, it wasn't.

I suspect that the idea was entertained very briefly during the initial planning process, but then they likely felt that it wasn't going to ever be needed. Remember, the TTC for a long time planned to replace all of the streetcar lines with subways and buses - they probably felt that the ridership would ever be high enough to warrant a second set of tracks.

Dan

[Articulated]

Nope, it wasn't.

I suspect that the idea was entertained very briefly during the initial planning process, but then they likely felt that it wasn't going to ever be needed. Remember, the TTC for a long time planned to replace all of the streetcar lines with subways and buses - they probably felt that the ridership would ever be high enough to warrant a second set of tracks.

Dan

Just to add on, the TTC was originally planning on running 2-car G car trains (aka one single married pair) during off-peak service. This tells you how little the ridership was anticipated to be.

[smallspy]

Looks neat, I have no idea why the TTC is spending money on this extravagance. Once it fails, it'll probably be abandoned like the Arc-en-Ciel at Yorkdale.

The budget for artwork for the line is about 1% of the total project. This compares to that of Downsview Station and the whole of the Sheppard Subway, which were 0.5%.

Dan

[torontottc7]

I assume that this sticker map is like the ones being used on Viva buses right?

I don't know if this has been discussed before or not: way back when they were planning the Yonge line, was the original plan to construct local and express tracks? I remember reading somewhere (not 100% for sure) that the plan was opposed due to the large amount of space that would of been needed for 4 tracks, but if this was the case was the idea of stacking them ever presented if so what was the drawback to this?

TTC decided to follow the CTA design and to keep out the express tracks, since they were also expecting so little people that you could operate just 2 G1s coupled for decent service. Also, I believe people would want the station to be just as important, because if you see express tracks at a station, it would make them think that they are less than important than say, Chester compared to Bathurst.

Edit: Ninja'd by a couple of hours!

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

Umm.. I didn't see this mentioned anywhere, sooooo...

TTC is now on Google Maps!!

Here's the Torontoist article link: http://torontoist.com/2010/10/ttc_is_now_on_google_maps.php

It's about time! I've tried it today and it's pretty cool. Now I can plan out my transit trip from GO to TTC!

[TTC12]

So I was going through the H4 Retirement thread, and someone mentioned that an H4 was set to High Rate. I realized that I've never heard about H5's, H6's and T1's having this setting. So I guess my question is; do they have H5's, H6's, ans T1's have a high rate setting? If so when is it used, if at all.

Thanks in advanced.

[D. DeLarge]

So I was going through the H4 Retirement thread, and someone mentioned that an H4 was set to High Rate. I realized that I've never heard about H5's, H6's and T1's having this setting. So I guess my question is; do they have H5's, H6's, ans T1's have a high rate setting? If so when is it used, if at all.

Thanks in advanced.

The rate mode switch affected performance, allowing the car to operate better with the slower Gloucester cars (that were slow even in their high rate setting) as well as under different passenger loads.

Transit Toronto mentions all the H-series as well as the M and G's having a rate switch.

[Downsview 108]

The rate mode switch affected performance, allowing the car to operate better with the slower Gloucester cars (that were slow even in their high rate setting) as well as under different passenger loads.

Transit Toronto mentions all the H-series as well as the M and G's having a rate switch.

I thought the Load Weigh feature was for changing passenger loads. I don't think the G's had that but The M1's and H1's did.

I think the high rate switch is also used in the event of a blown motor. Saw that occur on an M1 but the operator didn't need to switch to high rate. Those cars were quality!

[D. DeLarge]

I thought the Load Weigh feature was for changing passenger loads. I don't think the G's had that but The M1's and H1's did.

I think the high rate switch is also used in the event of a blown motor. Saw that occur on an M1 but the operator didn't need to switch to high rate. Those cars were quality!

Here's what I found on it:

Although the Gloucesters had a “rate” switch (low - medium - high), designed to be adjusted by the operator to compensate for passenger loading to maintain performance, the excessive empty car weights meant the cars were always kept in high rate, at an acceleration of 1.9 mphps (miles per hour per second). The M-1s introduced two features: (a) a dual rate switch with two settings: low performance to match the G cars in mixed service and high performance at 2.5 mphps when operated independently. The operator would be instructed how to set the switch if not already done by the carhouse as cars entered service. (b ) Load weighing (with air bag suspension that automatically adjusted the motor current with varying passenger loads to maintain the selected (LP or HP) rate.

Dual rates are also listed under the specs for the H5/H6 cars, although I'm not sure if there's actually a switch for this.

[greekguy1326]

-

[Archer]

I believe the T1 trains are also equipped with a high rate mode, but it is a key override that enables it and the key isn't standard issue. Any subway guys that can confirm/deny?

[rocketdriver2019]

Yes its a key and only senior operators have them from the G car era. The use of high rate key iirc is strictly forbidden and rare. Infact I would question if that h4 spotted recently was really on highrate.

All classes of subway cars have high rate. TR cars should but that has yet to be confirmed.

The rate switches are key operated and sealed at all times. Operators are not allowed to operate it. If it is necessary to have a train in high rate, the line mechanic is the one that sets it.

The only time a train should be in high rate in regular service is if two or more cars have non-functioning motors. Transit control must be notified, and operators getting relieved should inform the operator taking over that the train is in high rate... if that doesn't happen, the operator should call control to confirm that the train is supposed to be in high rate.

[ttcgeek]

When the operator was making the call to control, 5603 was sealed at high rate. Actually, it was stuck in between high rate and normal.

[TTC12]

Where are the switches located? are they inside the cab? I've always wondered what the knob or bolt-like-thing on H5's or H6's , and the master controller goes over it when its turned.

[smallspy]

I thought the Load Weigh feature was for changing passenger loads. I don't think the G's had that but The M1's and H1's did.

I think the high rate switch is also used in the event of a blown motor. Saw that occur on an M1 but the operator didn't need to switch to high rate. Those cars were quality!

Here's what I found on it:

Dual rates are also listed under the specs for the H5/H6 cars, although I'm not sure if there's actually a switch for this.

Load weighting and the different rate modes are two different things, although they perform similar functions.

As described in the entry that D.DeLarge posted, the G cars had a switch that allowed the operators to vary the rate of acceleration depending on the load of the train. The idea was that if the train was lightly loaded, the operator could set it in "low" to reduce power use and strain on the traction motors. If the train was fully loaded, the operator could set it to "high" to increase the power to the traction motors, and try and keep the train running at more or less the same speed as one that was empty. They removed the switches after about 10 or 15 years and just left them set at "high".

This same function is now performed automatically in all of the 75' subway cars with a complex linkage tied into the suspension system that will also increase the pressure of the air suspension to keep the platform at the right height. It will vary the power to the traction motors depending on how loaded the car is, and so they will work harder under acceleration and braking to try and maintain the same rates as when empty. You can see part of this linkage on the outside of the trucks of a CLRV as well.

This is not the same as the infamous mode rate acceleration switches in the 75' cars.

Dan

[Downsview 108]

nice,

thanks for clarifying this.

[Orion VIII]

Load weighting and the different rate modes are two different things, although they perform similar functions.

As described in the entry that D.DeLarge posted, the G cars had a switch that allowed the operators to vary the rate of acceleration depending on the load of the train. The idea was that if the train was lightly loaded, the operator could set it in "low" to reduce power use and strain on the traction motors. If the train was fully loaded, the operator could set it to "high" to increase the power to the traction motors, and try and keep the train running at more or less the same speed as one that was empty. They removed the switches after about 10 or 15 years and just left them set at "high".

This same function is now performed automatically in all of the 75' subway cars with a complex linkage tied into the suspension system that will also increase the pressure of the air suspension to keep the platform at the right height. It will vary the power to the traction motors depending on how loaded the car is, and so they will work harder under acceleration and braking to try and maintain the same rates as when empty. You can see part of this linkage on the outside of the trucks of a CLRV as well.

This is not the same as the infamous mode rate acceleration switches in the 75' cars.

Dan

I've thought about this before but never really put two and two together on this one (that and never having been introduced to this function)...

A fully loaded southbound AM Yonge Line H5 train sounds a little different than an empty one. I can't really explain the different and know it's not a result of the sound being muffled by the crushload of passengers, but it's different.

[smallspy]

I've thought about this before but never really put two and two together on this one (that and never having been introduced to this function)...

A fully loaded southbound AM Yonge Line H5 train sounds a little different than an empty one. I can't really explain the different and know it's not a result of the sound being muffled by the crushload of passengers, but it's different.

I can't admit to being able to tell the differences with different loads aboard - that is too subtle for my ear - but it seems plausible that there are slight differences in pitch or note due to the additional voltage/current being put through the system because of the additional weight on a fully-loaded train.

Dan

[Kenster102.5]

When is the next rebuild for the Orion II? Are they going to use the ELF or the Friendly Buses on the Community Bus routes.

[Downsview 108]

When is the next rebuild for the Orion II? Are they going to use the ELF or the Friendly Buses on the Community Bus routes.

Yeah that's what I've been wondering too. Can't believe they're Still around.

[D40-90]

Yeah that's what I've been wondering too. Can't believe they're Still around.

They never went through some type of rebuild in all these years? Thats good, too bad they don't make them any more.

[Downsview 108]

They never went through some type of rebuild in all these years? Thats good, too bad they don't make them any more.

Probably not, they'd be in newer colours otherwise.