King County Metro - Seattle, Washington

[Orion VIII]

I was watching KOMO from Seattle and a story said that a Community Transit bus was invovled in an accident with a driver who lost control while sending a text message.

I saw an RTS that did not appear to be damaged at all.

Use this thread to discuss King County Metro and Community Transit.

[A. Wong]

People who text while driving are stupid.

King County Metro is rich and doesn't achieve good fuel economy with the hybrid DE60LFs.

Community Transit has nice new Inveros.

[M. Parsons]

Community Transit has nice new Inveros.

That are not liked by many!

[M. Wright]

That are not liked by many!

Most people who don't like them never rode them I find. (Well atlest thats the situation when it comes to Ottawas Inveros)

[M. Parsons]

Most people who don't like them never rode them I find. (Well atlest thats the situation when it comes to Ottawas Inveros)

Well considering Community Transit OPERATES them and they don't like them... Apparently...

I would imagine they would know what they like and don't like.

BTW, riding Invero's in Winnipeg confirms my dislike for the bus... I have rode them in Ottawa, Burlington and Winnipeg now...

[M. Wright]

Well considering Community Transit OPERATES them and they don't like them... Apparently...

I would imagine they would know what they like and don't like.

BTW, riding Invero's in Winnipeg confirms my dislike for the bus... I have rode them in Ottawa, Burlington and Winnipeg now...

Are the ones in Winnipeg the first gen Invero or second gen? Ottawa and Community Transit operates the second gen.

[M. Parsons]

Are the ones in Winnipeg the first gen Invero or second gen? Ottawa and Community Transit operates the second gen.

What does it matter? I dislike them either way.

[M. Wright]

What does it matter? I dislike them either way.

It's just like the LFS, First Gen is really bad while the Second Gen is improved.

But I don't totally love the Inveros, I just like them as my favorite LF. HFs are my favorite.

Now Fishbowls I totally love. They are reliable and gives a great ride and aren't new!

[Enviro 500]

It's just like the LFS, First Gen is really bad while the Second Gen is improved.

But I don't totally love the Inveros, I just like them as my favorite LF. HFs are my favorite.

Now Fishbowls I totally love. They are reliable and gives a great ride and aren't new!

I've rode on a Burlington Invero back in August during my visit..............they're alright, in fact, they left a very distinct impression in my head!

Dave

[general682002]

I've rode on a Burlington Invero back in August during my visit..............they're alright, in fact, they left a very distinct impression in my head!

Dave

Rode all 3 Inveros except Winnipeg (same powertrain as Burlington) and they are ok, more of a plastic cheapo bus and unreliable rear door. St. Catharines and London are still dealing with body and engine problem. Electrical is not much.

At least Martin got his wish that Invero will be killed once the last batch of Ottawa Invero delivers.

[M. Wright]

Rode all 3 Inveros except Winnipeg (same powertrain as Burlington) and they are ok, more of a plastic cheapo bus and unreliable rear door. St. Catharines and London are still dealing with body and engine problem. Electrical is not much.

At least Martin got his wish that Invero will be killed once the last batch of Ottawa Invero delivers.

Were still getting them.

Slowly though. I think it might be because the provinal government no longer funds bus buys. (Well I'm not sure about this but I remember there was a discussion on this a while ago. Feel free to correct me on this.)

Also do remember that 4201 was the first of the second generation Inveros. That period when no one bought Inveros was because NFI wasn't selling them as it was getting the bugs fixed. (Well all bugs except the rear door)

Apparently we were going to get Inveros back in 2002 but NFI said it was back in the design phrase.

[M. Parsons]

At least Martin got his wish that Invero will be killed once the last batch of Ottawa Invero delivers.

Meh. I think the Invero is an interesting bus. I enjoyed *seeing* them in Ottawa, Burlington, and Winnipeg. I just dislike riding them, and I think the whole concept was flawed from the beginning and has ended up being an expensive project for New Flyer. I can't help but wonder if they've even made money off of the Invero's after all of the prototypes... R&D... I believe warranty work from some of the systems that first got them.... All for what they call a premium bus... When transit systems often purchase buses based upon the lowest bid.

Since then.... Instead of trying to reinvent the bus, New Flyer went out and changed the front and rear of the X30LF, X40LF, and X60LF. I'm sure New Flyer has delivered or has on order more LFR's than it has sold Invero's. If they don't, I'm sure it won't be long until the LFR does surpass the Invero.

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

Apparently we were going to get Inveros back in 2002 but NFI said it was back in the design phrase.

Calgary Transit was originally supposed to get 6 Invero's back in 2002 as well, but CT decided at hte last minute to change them back to regular D40LF models. I believe that was a good choice.

[general682002]

Calgary Transit was originally supposed to get 6 Invero's back in 2002 as well, but CT decided at hte last minute to change them back to regular D40LF models. I believe that was a good choice.

They did made a right choice, otherwise mechanics would just use a sailor tone attitude by kept fixing and fixing the Invero.

[M. Wright]

They did made a right choice, otherwise mechanics would just use a sailor tone attitude by kept fixing and fixing the Invero.

Well our D60LFs break down more often than our Inveros. From the mechanics I've talked to, (at OC atlest) they like the Invero as it is doesn't break down as often as the rest of our LF buses do. (That being the LFS, VI and D60LFs)

From the sounds of the mechanics, they use a sailor tone attitude towards the D60LFs especially as they are hardest to repair according to that mechanic.

Now that's from a Mechanic.

[general682002]

Well our D60LFs break down more often than our Inveros. From the mechanics I've talked to, (at OC atlest) they like the Invero as it is doesn't break down as often as the rest of our LF buses do. (That being the LFS, VI and D60LFs)

Well, the Invero for OC had some several modifications with better PLC and other mechanical components, which is why it's better.

[M. Parsons]

Well, the Invero for OC had some several modifications with better PLC and other mechanical components, which is why it's better.

Pretty much by the sounds of it... too little, too late...

With the LFR and BRT modifications avalible now...

[Puget Sound Rider]

King County Metro has a variety of vehicles.

D40LF-100

D60-273

D60LF-30

DE60LF-213

Gillig Phantom: 30'-95 35'-15 40'-395 40' trolley-100

Breda: 1991 Dual mode-59 of which are in the process of being rebuilt and converted to electric only

MAN 60' Trolley-Being retired as the Breda coaches come back...about 15 of them are still around

[Ode of Bund]

I was in Seattle on December 31 for a half day excursion, took as many

pictures as I possibly could, and have loads to write about. Athough Seattle

commenced a new streetcar operation in December, it was not my primary objective

during this short trip since I already spent two days in Portland riding their

brothers and sisters, both Portland and Seattle employed the same type of streetcar

which was the Skoda-Inekon Astra model built in the city of Plzen in Czech Republic.

However, seeing much of the debate about the design of trolley-bus and streetcar cross

over special works on several mailing lists, I still consiciously went to the intersections at

Westlake/Virginia and Westlake/Stewart to see for myself how these special

works were constructed. At Westlake/Virginia, one way

eastbound trolley overhead (on Virginia) crosses both northbound and

southbound streetcar overhead (on Westlake), here there was no insulation

what so ever on either trolley or streetcar overhead. The streetcar merged

into a single track between Virginia and Stewart, so at Westlake/Stewart,

there was only one single set of westbound trolley overhead crossing a single

set of streetcar overhead, however this time streetcar overhead was

insulated with two breakers on each side of trolley wires and a jumper

wire was raised high above the street contact wire. The structure of the special

work was different from that used in Edmonton for the trolley and LRT crossing, it

looked much simplified. I did not go as far as Fairview where trolley-bus and streetcar

operated on the same street, and according to Zack Willhoite, there were more trolley

street car interactions.

I rode the converted Breda for the first time. Arriving from Portland by Amtrak Cascade

train, the Union Station (why rail-way stations in U.S. metropolises all called union stations?)

was only one block south of Jackson Street, home to three trolley-bus routes, 7, 14, and 36.

The first arrival was a Alstom-Gillig trolley serving the 7, very attempting, but I was

more determined to get a Breda first. The next arrival was a gruesome Gillig Phantom

diesel painted all in green, prentending to be a vintage street car. The unfortunate Seattle

Waterfront streetcars were squeezed out of their domain in which their barn was converted for

condo development, it would be for a while before the real vintage street cars return.

Shortly after a Breda pulled in, serving a route 7 for as far as Rainier Beach, the real terminal

of route 7 was Prentice Street at 62 Avenue. Although no longer serving the University of

Washington at north, route 7 remained the longest trolley route in Seattle. The serial number

of the coach was 4253, previously from the information of different sources, I was

under the impression that only 46 Bredas would be converted to conventional

trolleys, assuming the serial number of converted Bredas started at 4200

and there were no missing gaps in serial number, 4253 already exceeded the limit widely

circulated among trolley fans. Now I was able to confirm with Zack that indeed as many units

were converted (serial # 4200~4259), to help improve the spare ratio and to have room for

service expansion (no new lines however). I saw a rusty steel pipe that

looked like an exhaustion pipe exposing itself under the lower abdomen on the

passenger side of the coach in front of the rear axle, however if I recalled

correctly, the diesel exhaustion pipe on original Breda was upper mounted,

exactly what kind of pipe it was remained unknown. The ride on converted Breda was

generally fast, smooth, and powerful. When I asked the driver about the puller feature with

electric motor powering the middle axle, and without steering arrangement on the rearmost axle

whether the vehicle would easily jump the curb at tight corners, to which he replied it was an

infrequent occurrence.

My last trip to Seattle was in 2003, four years have gone by, bus fare in Seattle

remained the same at a dollar twenty-five at off peak hours for one zone. When I asked

for a day pass which could be issued by the driver, only to discover that day passes were

only available on weekends. Seattle adopted fare less downtown practice to reduce automobile

dependency in CBD areas and to improve the boarding times, however such practice had a counter

effect outside the realm of downtown. Boarding and deboarding were all done through front

door only on all outbound buses, passengers all seemed to be glued to their seats until the bus

came to a complete stop, fares were then collected at this time from deboarding passengers,

one dollar U.S. currency was more common in bills, which took more time to insert than coins.

Afterwards came the turn of the boarding passengers who had to pay immediately upon their entry,

another precious moment was wasted to insert bills.

At Rainier Beach, I then transfered to a 36 diesel, but jumped off as soon I saw trolley

overhead on Beacon Avenue at Othello. When the bus crossed the Martin Luther King Jr. Way, I saw

the new light rail track, the system was due to commence service in September of 2009. I did not

have a chance to see the famous Seattle transit tunnel, but it must have been fully excavated

and ready for LRT operation since full bus service has already been restored in the tunnel.

At Othello, the Gillig 4105 was already there doing

its layover, took numerous pictures of including a self portrait before

hopping on. During the trip back to downtown, the driver was in a rush

mode. On 3rd Avenue, the coach was following a Breda on the 7,

the Breda failed to switch onto divergent wires before turning onto

Virginia, and my driver failed to observe before attempting to pass the

Breda, both coaches were on the same track, poles collided with a

loud bang before each individual realized his mistake. After the accident, 4105 continued

on as a 1-Kinear and gradually entered more affluent neighborhoods on Queen Anne Hills.

Never had I previously realized how senic this trolley route really was, with plenty of

precipitation to nurture the fertile soil, trees of more than 100 years aligned the streets,

creating a thick canopy which made one easily forgeting this was in the middle of the winter, and

the insertion of trolley-bus into such picturesque surroundings added one more touch of harmouny

into the ambience of an already colorful ink and water painting.

When exploring the the trolley streetcar overhead special works, an unexpected gain was the

understanding of the downtown routings of the 7 and 49 when they were not

interlined. For the 49, the route map was confusing as it showed a sudden end on 1st Avenue.

I saw two Bredas doing layover on Virginia heading east, they were sitting on the west

side of the 3rd Avenue. Initially I thought they would proceed directly

east on Virginia crossing the 3rd Avenue, but on a closer look, I discovered

that their poles were on the overhead that eventually turned south onto the

3rd Avenue, and indeed, when the first Breda left its layover spot, it

turned south onto 3rd Avenue, but only for a very short moment, it quickly

turned west again. Now the exact routing became obvious to me, when coming from University of

Washington, the 49 proceeded west bound on Pine Stree, NB on 1st Avenue, EB on Virginia and doing

its layover. When going back to UW, continued EB on Virginia, SB on 3rd Avenue, WB on Stewart, SB

on 2nd Avenue, EB on Pike, and started to pick up passengers on Pike Street on the east side of the 3rd

Avenue. As for the 7, it went NB on 3rd Avenue, EB on Virginia, SB on 7th Avenue, WB on Stewart, back

to SB on 3rd Avenue. And when the 7 and 49 were interlined, simply NB on 3rd, EB on Pike, and WB on

Pine to SB on 3rd.

[M. Parsons]

I rode the converted Breda for the first time, the serial number of the

coach was 4259, serving a route 7 and went as far as Rainier Beach only.

Previously from the information of different mailing lists, I was always

under the impression that only 46 Bredas would be converted to conventional

trolleys, assuming the serial numbers of converted Bredas started at 4200

and there were no missing gaps in serial numbers, exactly how many have been

converted? Was 4259 the highest in the series?

From the information I have seen they did 60, so 4259 should be the highest

[Ode of Bund]

still cannot attach picture

[IRT_BMT_IND]

why rail-way stations in U.S. metropolises all called union stations?

Because back when Amtrak was not the only US passenger railway, multiple railways would serve the station (as opposed to separate terminals for each railway), hence, "Union Station"

[M. Parsons]

Of course it's not just the US. Toronto has a Union Station. I believe Winnipeg does as well. I don't believe Montreal, or Vancouver had Union Stations, however.

[Ode of Bund]

More and more artics are rumbling the streets of Seattle now.

[Tcmetro]

^^ They have over 500 already, and over 500 new ones coming for the 'Transit Now' service expansion. They will also get new DE60LFRs, or D60LF BRTs between 2010 and 2013 for the Rapid Ride BRT service.