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Nova wins 2012 MetroX order


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#1 Halifax_Route10

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:38 PM

It would appear that Metro Transit is officially cozy with Nova again:

http://www.halifax.c...11025ca1113.pdf

They're recommending Nova be awarded the contract for 9 40ft LFS buses, with an option for 6 more. Delivery targeted for early 2012. This would be for the Airport/Fall River MetroX service, and the buses will be equipped with luggage racks. That route's going to have a lot of highway driving...

Orion actually put in the lowest bid!

#2 stm_5307N

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 11:02 AM

It would appear that Metro Transit is officially cozy with Nova again:

http://www.halifax.c...11025ca1113.pdf

They're recommending Nova be awarded the contract for 9 40ft LFS buses, with an option for 6 more. Delivery targeted for early 2012. This would be for the Airport/Fall River MetroX service, and the buses will be equipped with luggage racks. That route's going to have a lot of highway driving...

Orion actually put in the lowest bid!

Looks like they took the quality over cost option... Orion is a cheap product afterall.. They probably figured to pay a lil more for Nova and get a lot more for their dollar.

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#3 general682002

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 01:25 AM

Looks like they took the quality over cost option... Orion is a cheap product afterall.. They probably figured to pay a lil more for Nova and get a lot more for their dollar.


That's pretty much what transit does, lowest tender may not be necessary!
More and more transit system are sticking to LF because of economical issues! Where as HF, it will be a rare to see in much future times!

As of April 2009, I have finally rode Nova Classic T-drive, two types of different engine! Which ones is better? Series 50 all the way man!

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#4 M.Wright

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 02:49 AM

So Halifax is finally going to have a bus route serving their airport? About time if you ask me.

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#5 general682002

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 08:36 PM

So Halifax is finally going to have a bus route serving their airport? About time if you ask me.


Ditto! Their private bus shuttle they have isn't the best! Once you purchase the ticket, you can't get a refund!
More and more transit system are sticking to LF because of economical issues! Where as HF, it will be a rare to see in much future times!

As of April 2009, I have finally rode Nova Classic T-drive, two types of different engine! Which ones is better? Series 50 all the way man!

2011 Charter: Able to manage to attend as there are some good ones to go for!

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#6 Cimon8000

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 02:56 PM

Looks like they took the quality over cost option... Orion is a cheap product afterall.. They probably figured to pay a lil more for Nova and get a lot more for their dollar.


I agree, for quality(body), i would go for Nova, while NFI can deliver at a lower cost..............well Orion? i don't want it if i want quality, i don't want it either if i want something low price........in another word they have no market at all..........

Congratulations to Nova!!! Would love to see more Novas around!

#7 M.Wright

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 04:23 PM

I agree, for quality(body), i would go for Nova, while NFI can deliver at a lower cost..............well Orion? i don't want it if i want quality, i don't want it either if i want something low price........in another word they have no market at all..........

Congratulations to Nova!!! Would love to see more Novas around!

Well I wouldn't say Orion is total crap. Right now in Ottawa the NGs are our most reliable buses with a Average Mean Distance Between Failure (MDBF) double the next most reliable bus. Which the next one ironically is the Orion Vs, even though those are now gone.

But we don't have anything Nova except some first gens that are now gone so I guess it isn't totally fair to compare, but in OC Transpo's case, the Orions are our most reliable bus. Goes to say something about New Flyers.


Plus most mechanics at OC prefer to work on the NGs over other types of buses since they are nice and simple to work on and never come in for much other then preventive maintenance (which so does the rest of the fleet, except the rest usually comes in with stuff more then preventive maintenance). They aren't perfect like anything else, but they sure don't have as many problems as the rest of the fleet.

Even our new D60LFRs in Ottawa which are 2 years newer then the majority of the NGs, have way more problems. To add on for the age factor, they just got delivered last fall/winter. This means the majority are just turning a year old recently.

And in my personal opinion, I never thought the NGs would be this good considering in Toronto they are turning out to be completely opposite. But they are turning out to be the best buses we've bought in a long time.

Also to add onto the this before someone claims "Maybe OC gives the NGs better maintenance treatment", well we don't. All buses are treated equal (unless their high floor, which doesn't count anymore). It's the quality factor that has created the problems we deal with today. They are all given the same preventive maintenance, the same inspections, the same everything. So it is not our service department that is the problem.

Now just thought I'd say that, sorry for going off topic.

Totally off topic:
Also everytime we've bought New Flyers and the Enviro 500s since 2001. It has been because the City/City Council picked those vehicles then transfered them to us. The Orion NGs were the first buses that OC Transpo actually picked themselves. This might be a factor in the reliability, but all the other previous orders were forced on OC by the City. We were supposed to be able to pick every vehicle since 2008 as OC got fed up with being given crap buses, but all other orders made since then (the 306 D60LFRs and the 75 Enviro 500s) were forced by City Council.

So much for being given "choice". As now after the 75 Enviro 500s arrive, our fleet will be so new that we won't have anything to replace for a while. With OC also trying to downsize the fleet, they will not be buying any expansion buses.

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#8 new.flyer.408

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:52 PM

And in my personal opinion, I never thought the NGs would be this good considering in Toronto they are turning out to be completely opposite. But they are turning out to be the best buses we've bought in a long time.

That can be attributed partly to dispatchers not knowing where to properly use them.

#9 M.Wright

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 10:29 AM

That can be attributed partly to dispatchers not knowing where to properly use them.

Actually that is questionable, we actually runs ours on much faster routes then Toronto thanks to our transitway, yet ours are still the most reliable bus we got.

But also with our frequent transitway stops (since most routes stop at every station except for stops like Pleasant Park, Lycee Claudel, etc.), they get a long charging period on approach to the stations and since there is no car traffic, it can be a constant de-acceleration.

And they do get put on the Transitway more frequently then they should be thanks in part to our route structure being based around the Transitway (especially for deadheading). At night as well when drivers take them to be used for driver shuttles (between midnight and 6 AM), they always use the 417 to drive the drivers home, and they usually take a hybrid.

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Also, our dispatchers aren't much better. This is why you can find artics on routes that never need them and Hybrids on routes that go fast. They only placements they do get right is the double decker placements but OC is very strict on the placement of those due to the regulated nature of them. In fact it is hard to mess up on the placement of the double deckers due to the fact they can only be put on 700-XX runs.

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#10 Kit Kat

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 12:36 PM

Congratulations to Nova!!! Would love to see more Novas around!


This order could open some more doors in years to come for Nova :)
It would of been interesting if these buses were hybrids. No one out east has hybrids yet.

Actually that is questionable, we actually runs ours on much faster routes then Toronto thanks to our transitway, yet ours are still the most reliable bus we got.


Why do you bring up OC transpo in every thread to compare to other systems? Just because they are reliable in Ottawa does not mean they are reliable anywhere else! Can we please stay on topic thank you very much.

Also, our dispatchers aren't much better. This is why you can find artics on routes that never need them and Hybrids on routes that go fast.


Have you ever done the job of a dispatcher? Its not an easy job.
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#11 Halifax_Route10

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 04:27 PM

It would of been interesting if these buses were hybrids. No one out east has hybrids yet.


Indeed. After our two DE60LFRs, Metro Transit seems to have gone back to Diesel. Although I don't know if there would be an advantage for this particular order; these buses will largely be doing 100km/h highway driving on their intended route.

Also, as a general note, I mentioned Orion's bid in the first place because, in the past, Orion has usually been the highest bidder on our tenders. In our 2006 tender, their bid was $2M higher than New Flyer's. Just thought it was an interesting reversal...

#12 Cimon8000

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 05:42 PM

This order could open some more doors in years to come for Nova :)
It would of been interesting if these buses were hybrids. No one out east has hybrids yet.



Why do you bring up OC transpo in every thread to compare to other systems? Just because they are reliable in Ottawa does not mean they are reliable anywhere else! Can we please stay on topic thank you very much.



Have you ever done the job of a dispatcher? Its not an easy job.



OC's experience would seem to be unique if their's NG are "reliable" for them. Not to get me wrong the mechanic up at Sault Ste Marie love their Orions as well although their next order is going to switch for Nova. Foreman at Saint John Transit seems to be happy with them too so..............i can only say MOST places with Orion are having a horrible experience, I wouldn't say "ALL"..............

but I just being suprised why they are getting next to "NO" new orders in Canada if they are building a better bus?.................you can almost count your fingers on how many new orders they have for Canada in 2011..................

#13 Bus_Medic

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 06:17 PM

Technical support?
Problem?

#14 Halifax_Route10

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:55 PM

Seashore posted in the charter thread that these buses were delivered recently. I just came across a hi-res rendering of an LFS in the MetroX livery in an HRM budget document. Looks sharp!

http://www.halifax.c...7ca1018pres.pdf (it's on page 17 of the PDF)

#15 calamin

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:59 AM

I will take pics this week I hope as 526 is at our garage.

#16 FlyerD901

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:15 PM

Well I wouldn't say Orion is total crap. Right now in Ottawa the NGs are our most reliable buses with a Average Mean Distance Between Failure (MDBF) double the next most reliable bus. Which the next one ironically is the Orion Vs, even though those are now gone.

But we don't have anything Nova except some first gens that are now gone so I guess it isn't totally fair to compare, but in OC Transpo's case, the Orions are our most reliable bus. Goes to say something about New Flyers.


Plus most mechanics at OC prefer to work on the NGs over other types of buses since they are nice and simple to work on and never come in for much other then preventive maintenance (which so does the rest of the fleet, except the rest usually comes in with stuff more then preventive maintenance). They aren't perfect like anything else, but they sure don't have as many problems as the rest of the fleet.

Even our new D60LFRs in Ottawa which are 2 years newer then the majority of the NGs, have way more problems. To add on for the age factor, they just got delivered last fall/winter. This means the majority are just turning a year old recently.

And in my personal opinion, I never thought the NGs would be this good considering in Toronto they are turning out to be completely opposite. But they are turning out to be the best buses we've bought in a long time.

Also to add onto the this before someone claims "Maybe OC gives the NGs better maintenance treatment", well we don't. All buses are treated equal (unless their high floor, which doesn't count anymore). It's the quality factor that has created the problems we deal with today. They are all given the same preventive maintenance, the same inspections, the same everything. So it is not our service department that is the problem.

Now just thought I'd say that, sorry for going off topic.


From my short experince at MTD, TTCs hybrids had, probably still has a coolant sensor problem.(and others problems but mainly at the time coolant sensor) Little glitchs in the electrical system can shut a bus down. Apparently the type of coolant was affecting the 1st gen hybrids. Where the 2nd gen hybrids didn't appear to have that problem. I guess because the sensor or termistor was reacting to the coolant differently. I remember when some of the guys were telling me about comparing them to the 1st gens at Malvern to the ones at MTD and they weren't having the problem untill they switch coolant. TTCs hybrids have definitly come along way, and mechanics don't mind working on them either.They still have a long way to go though. Its good and interesting to see how other transit systems experince the same bus with different results.

#17 FlyerD901

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:15 PM

Well I wouldn't say Orion is total crap. Right now in Ottawa the NGs are our most reliable buses with a Average Mean Distance Between Failure (MDBF) double the next most reliable bus. Which the next one ironically is the Orion Vs, even though those are now gone.

But we don't have anything Nova except some first gens that are now gone so I guess it isn't totally fair to compare, but in OC Transpo's case, the Orions are our most reliable bus. Goes to say something about New Flyers.


Plus most mechanics at OC prefer to work on the NGs over other types of buses since they are nice and simple to work on and never come in for much other then preventive maintenance (which so does the rest of the fleet, except the rest usually comes in with stuff more then preventive maintenance). They aren't perfect like anything else, but they sure don't have as many problems as the rest of the fleet.

Even our new D60LFRs in Ottawa which are 2 years newer then the majority of the NGs, have way more problems. To add on for the age factor, they just got delivered last fall/winter. This means the majority are just turning a year old recently.

And in my personal opinion, I never thought the NGs would be this good considering in Toronto they are turning out to be completely opposite. But they are turning out to be the best buses we've bought in a long time.

Also to add onto the this before someone claims "Maybe OC gives the NGs better maintenance treatment", well we don't. All buses are treated equal (unless their high floor, which doesn't count anymore). It's the quality factor that has created the problems we deal with today. They are all given the same preventive maintenance, the same inspections, the same everything. So it is not our service department that is the problem.

Now just thought I'd say that, sorry for going off topic.


From my short experince at MTD, TTCs hybrids had, probably still has a coolant sensor problem.(and others problems but mainly at the time coolant sensor) Little glitchs in the electrical system can shut a bus down. Apparently the type of coolant was affecting the 1st gen hybrids. Where the 2nd gen hybrids didn't appear to have that problem. I guess because the sensor or termistor was reacting to the coolant differently. I remember when some of the guys were telling me about comparing them to the 1st gens at Malvern to the ones at MTD and they weren't having the problem untill they switch coolant. TTCs hybrids have definitly come along way, and mechanics don't mind working on them either.They still have a long way to go though. Its good and interesting to see how other transit systems experince the same bus with different results.

#18 calamin

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:49 AM

Here are some pics of 527 sorry for the quality I took these with my Iphone Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

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#19 AlexLy

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 04:49 PM

Looks good! :)

sigoct2014.jpg


#20 Halifax_Route10

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:43 PM

Great photos!

I'll be curious to see if anyone ever sits in those seats right behind the driver...very cramped-looking.




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