219 replies to this topic

[rollsign29]

smallspy, on Sep 2 2009, 03:48 PM, said:

And as I have stated in that other thread, this line is not feasible for use for passenger service to Ottawa.

Dan

Agreed, considering there is no easy (or rail-friendly) way of transitioning ottawa-bound trains from Havelock and Perth up the VIA line to Ottawa without missing Smiths Falls.

The only way such a thing will ever work is if it was a local service in place of the buses, which I can't see happening.

As said, with the upgrades to the line, don't be surprised if (and this is a big IF) such project ever happens to resurrect the "old north main", that some sections are completely realigned, like that through Sharbot Lake, which is not only very curvy, but also very developed now. Not sure if they would appreciate a return of rail.

As for speeds, I can't see anything happening that would exceed 80/60 passenger/freight. Beyond that, and you're really needing some high-end geometrics to handle it.

[M.Wright]

Isn't there an abandoned rail corridor that parallels highway 7?

Can't they resurrect that?

[jlarocque2005]

M.Wright, on Sep 6 2009, 11:02 AM, said:

Isn't there an abandoned rail corridor that parallels highway 7?

Can't they resurrect that?

Iirc thats part of the Rail Trail that connects with Carleton Place and runs to Ottawa which is part of the Trans Canada Trail.

[Hermid]

theres the abandoned line that runs from havlock to Glen Tray, and they connects to Peth, then you can connect to Smith Falls then to Carelton Place to Ottawa Union if those lines are still there. another way would be to go from Smith Falls to Kempton then to Ottawa

[M.Wright]

jlarocque2005, on Sep 6 2009, 11:54 AM, said:

Iirc thats part of the Rail Trail that connects with Carleton Place and runs to Ottawa which is part of the Trans Canada Trail.

That's what those Rail Trails are for, is preserving the ROW until the railway is needed again.

[Hermid]

M.Wright, on Sep 7 2009, 01:30 AM, said:

That's what those Rail Trails are for, is preserving the ROW until the railway is needed again.

Question: If they decided to run trains on those trails again, wouldnt people whine about it?, also how many of these line have had they rails completly removed?,

2nd noob question what does ROW mean.

[smallspy]

Hermid, on Sep 7 2009, 01:41 AM, said:

Question: If they decided to run trains on those trails again, wouldnt people whine about it?, also how many of these line have had they rails completly removed?,

In a lot of cases, yes - the people would probably complain about the noise and the fact that the trains are back. In a lot of places however you should be able to rebuild the trail alongside the tracks.

Because of the way property taxes are determined in Canada, virtually all abandoned rail lines have their tracks pulled up almost immediately after the end of service.

Hermid, on Sep 7 2009, 01:41 AM, said:

2nd noob question what does ROW mean.

Right Of Way.

Dan

[alco3612]

There is a rumor, (according to some supervisors at GO) that Metrolinx/GO Transit has recently bought the CP Havelock Subdivsion within the last month or two.

[D. DeLarge]

alco3612, on Nov 27 2009, 09:45 PM, said:

There is a rumor, (according to some supervisors at GO) that Metrolinx/GO Transit has recently bought the CP Havelock Subdivsion within the last month or two.

Weston Sub, Don Branch, part of the Newmarket Sub, now the Havelock? They're going to have a fun time upgrading and keeping that line maintained! CP's still going to be running on it to service Unimin though.

Personally, I won't believe it until smallspy's hears it from one of his sources.

[Shaun]

D. DeLarge, on Nov 27 2009, 08:52 PM, said:

Weston Sub, Don Branch, part of the Newmarket Sub, now the Havelock? They're going to have a fun time upgrading and keeping that line maintained! CP's still going to be running on it to service Unimin though.

Personally, I won't believe it until smallspy's hears it from one of his sources.

There was a study done to see where stations could be built on that line to serve Bowmanville, and Clarington. Just depends on where the service will originate, Union station or the old CP Station uptown.

[smallspy]

D. DeLarge, on Nov 27 2009, 08:52 PM, said:

...part of the Newmarket Sub...

Sorry, did I miss something here? GO's owned the Newmarket Sub north of Snider since 2002 - did they buy the rest recently?

Dan

[D. DeLarge]

smallspy, on Nov 27 2009, 11:47 PM, said:

Sorry, did I miss something here? GO's owned the Newmarket Sub north of Snider since 2002 - did they buy the rest recently?

Dan

Sorry, I just included it as part of the former CN lines GO owns (in no particular order). As far as I've heard, they only own the portion north of Snider, but would like the buy the portion to the south (not that CN has any customers on it, but it seems to provide a viable detour route they can use without having to GO asking GO's permission).

[smallspy]

D. DeLarge, on Nov 27 2009, 11:26 PM, said:

Sorry, I just included it as part of the former CN lines GO owns (in no particular order). As far as I've heard, they only own the portion north of Snider, but would like the buy the portion to the south (not that CN has any customers on it, but it seems to provide a viable detour route they can use without having to GO asking GO's permission).

CN has lots of customers on the part of the line they still own - likely almost as many as the Weston Sub. I'm sure that it has more to do with GO not being in as much of a hurry to upgrade as the line to Brampton.

Dan

[brs84]

Old news but did anyone see this...... sorry if you all have!



CP lines to be included in environmental assessment


Published: September 11th 2009
Source: By Mark Hoult - The Community Press
Printer friendly version

Havelock-Belmont-Methuen – The CP rail lines between Peterborough and Havelock will be included in the environmental assessment process in preparation for the improvement of the rail line between Peterborough and Peterborough County and Toronto, Reeve Ron Gerow said last week..................................

http://www.tcrc295.c...ber_11_2009.htm

[Shaun]

brs84, on Nov 30 2009, 10:20 PM, said:

Old news but did anyone see this...... sorry if you all have!



CP lines to be included in environmental assessment


Published: September 11th 2009
Source: By Mark Hoult - The Community Press
Printer friendly version

Havelock-Belmont-Methuen – The CP rail lines between Peterborough and Havelock will be included in the environmental assessment process in preparation for the improvement of the rail line between Peterborough and Peterborough County and Toronto, Reeve Ron Gerow said last week..................................

http://www.tcrc295.c...ber_11_2009.htm

On a side note...what is the ridership like for the Peterborough route for GO? Is it doing well?

[TheAverageJoe]

Shaun, on Dec 1 2009, 05:31 AM, said:

On a side note...what is the ridership like for the Peterborough route for GO? Is it doing well?

from what I heard its doing ok, same as the falls and KW area services are all doing well

[CampbellfordSub]

TheAverageJoe, on Dec 1 2009, 10:15 PM, said:

from what I heard its doing ok, same as the falls and KW area services are all doing well

Hello folks, I'm pleased that this discussion is a current thing. I jotted down a few of my own musings on my blog
http://contemplatatradere.xanga.com/717750...rtest-distance/

As my name suggests, I live along the former CNR Campbellford Sub, which lost its rails 20 years ago. It is my earnest desire to see what's left of the Havelock Sub preserved for the future. The recent murmurings regarding a total rehab, and even a re-connection of the entire northern Main Line are a positive sign. However, I am a skeptic, having seen far too many empty promises by both politicians and railroads which came to nothing. Where I grew up in Prince Edward County there was always talk of closing the CNR line, but everyone confidently insisted that "as long as the Cement Plant is standing we're safe". Within 5 years the line was abandoned and the rails were torn up, despite some tourist railway interests wanting to lease the line.

Anyhow, glad I found this discussion. Cheers.

[Hermid]

CampbellfordSub, on Dec 6 2009, 08:19 AM, said:

Hello folks, I'm pleased that this discussion is a current thing. I jotted down a few of my own musings on my blog
http://contemplatatradere.xanga.com/717750...rtest-distance/

As my name suggests, I live along the former CNR Campbellford Sub, which lost its rails 20 years ago. It is my earnest desire to see what's left of the Havelock Sub preserved for the future. The recent murmurings regarding a total rehab, and even a re-connection of the entire northern Main Line are a positive sign. However, I am a skeptic, having seen far too many empty promises by both politicians and railroads which came to nothing. Where I grew up in Prince Edward County there was always talk of closing the CNR line, but everyone confidently insisted that "as long as the Cement Plant is standing we're safe". Within 5 years the line was abandoned and the rails were torn up, despite some tourist railway interests wanting to lease the line.

Anyhow, glad I found this discussion. Cheers.

Yeah, ones the mines in Havelock are depleted there is not going to be very much use for the line anymore, Only costumers business that use the rail service in Peterborough are Quaker, Canada Malt (that place on Lansdown street across from Staples and Home Depot) GE and PolyTubes (I heard they are going under). I don't think that that rail line will get much usage as a passenger line because most because it completely bypasses the 401 corridor, and a lot people are going in either direction to Toronto and Ottawa/Montreal. Which can be done by going threw Oshawa.

Not to mention, and I have said this before, there won't be any Big Industries coming to Peterborough, Because this city is full of University students and Old people (meaning there is hardly anyone between 30 and 60, which employers look for in communities), and those two groups always try to stop new Factories and other industries that try to setup shop in the city or region (this is a community that protests a HOSPITAL ACCESS ROAD). However, on a positive side there is renewed interest in the logging and Uranium deposits north of Peterborough(Again University students will complain about those two), and GE's planned expansion. However the future of this sub is very grim, Only way I see it surviving the next 50 years is someone setting up a heritage rail(which I would proudly support) and running tour trains threw the region. Thank god I am moving out of the Kawartha Region with in the next few months.

[CampbellfordSub]

Hermid,
We can't forget the new Ethanol Plant being built at the old 3M facility in Havelock, and the news that the line is to be upgraded out to Havelock. The more I research this, the more hopeful I see. In fact, I think that CP is realising that a total dependence on freight for their bread and butter is like putting all your eggs in one basket. This may be a move on the part of CP to correct some mistakes they made almost 40 years ago to abandon the line and alsopassenger service. If they rebuild their northern route from TO to Ottawa it will piss off the tree huggers and flower children who use the railbed for a personal walking trail, but this is their tough luck to which I can only suggest they "suck it up and grow up".
If the passenger service is run out to Havelock it will carry a lot of extra traffic drawn from Campbellford, Hastings, Marmora and all the rural areas in between because we are a huge retirement area, and a lot of senior people are afraid to drive in Toronto, but would gladly take the train down to Union Station and then a taxi to medical appt's or to the theatre, museums etc. The "experts" who did the surveys 20 years ago who shut down the passenger service, really ought to begin living in the present and actually spend time in the communities affected getting to learn the demographics. I have lived here for 15 years, and seen a huge shift, all those people who have retired here have likely pushed our median age up to 55.
I know even some stodgy old farmers who love attending the Royal Winter Fair in Toronto, who drive to the Lakeshore and then take the GO train into the fair grounds because they no longer want to drive and pay to park and fight traffic on unfamiliar roads in heavy traffic. No doubt they would just as soon drive to Havelock and park and ride.
The "heritage steam railway" bit is also worth considering, but whether it would pay is the question. If the one now in Uxbridge had a connection and permission to use the revamped Havelock Sub, then they could extend their "trackage" by offering to run excursions and "Fair Specials" or other gimmicky trips, esp if the old Lakefield run was reintroduced. In this day of hard times, a day spent tootling around the countryside on a steam excursion train with a $75.00 "family pass" is a cheap back yard vacation for a family with lots of excitement for the kids and for dad too. Perhaps the temporarily mothballed CPR steam loco Empress could be stationed in PTBO or their TO yard and used up and down the line?
CP needs to get off their duff and get creative and innovative and be willing to try new things. The stuck inthe mud "freight or die" mindset is going to kill them, the lack of diversification is already hurting them as they lost a big chunk of their coal revenue to CN from one customer, with nothing to replace it. Sheesh, throw a half dozen coaches behind a loco, type up a schedule, throw up a few trackside wind shelters and run the damn thing...see if anyone rides it, simple. If you make a few bucks, great at least you keep employees working instead of paying them to stay home a twiddle their thumbs, if you lose a bit, well you're losing money anyhow.
The restoration of a direct Ottawa-Toronto route via Tweed Peterborough would draw way more passenger traffic than might be imagined if they are using 1964 population demographics (the last year CP ran passenger service along that Sub). CP and the Gov't need to open their eyes.

[CampbellfordSub]

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_...istory_psgr.htm

Nice bit of data re: the Montreal-Toronto northern line.