VIA Rail: Canadian Discussion Options

[railfandrew]

I have a question. Why does the Canadian leave Union Station and take the Newmarket Sub North, reverse to the York Sub, travel East along the York Sub, and then proceed North on the Bala Sub? Why couldn't it leave from the Bala Sub from Union Station?

[Shaun]

I have a question. Why does the Canadian leave Union Station and take the Newmarket Sub North, reverse to the York Sub, travel East along the York Sub, and then proceed North on the Bala Sub? Why couldn't it leave from the Bala Sub from Union Station?

It has to do with the direction the train comes in. And it would be really hard to find a way to turn that train around, we dont have a wye long enough.

[smallspy]

To add to what Shaun wrote....

The closest place with a long-enough wye to turn the train is Bayview, and CN is leery of tying up one of their busiest points for too long.

As well, it would add a couple of hours of additional time that the train is not at TMC for cleaning and servicing, and the current schedule is tight enough as it is.

Dan

[Shaun]

To add to what Shaun wrote....

The closest place with a long-enough wye to turn the train is Bayview, and CN is leery of tying up one of their busiest points for too long.

As well, it would add a couple of hours of additional time that the train is not at TMC for cleaning and servicing, and the current schedule is tight enough as it is.

Dan

Could they back the train down lower end of the Bala sub by Wying the train as it comes into Toronto? But then it comes in at one of the busiest times of the day so that wouldn't be a good idea.

[Oc4526]

Aparently The Canadians schedule is changing December 2 2008

Valid Dec 2 2008

Wb from Toronto
http://www.viarail.ca/pdf/2008/timetable/T...valid2dec08.pdf
Eb From Vancover
http://www.viarail.ca/pdf/2008/timetable/V...valid2dec08.pdf

[dowlingm]

It has to do with the direction the train comes in. And it would be really hard to find a way to turn that train around, we dont have a wye long enough.

How long is the Canadian?

[smallspy]

How long is the Canadian?

Depends on the time of year, but it varies from 2 locos and 8 cars to 4 locos and 30 cars.

Dan

[dowlingm]

Depends on the time of year, but it varies from 2 locos and 8 cars to 4 locos and 30 cars.

30 cars... you'd think it would make sense to simply add a run or two in season...

be nice to me, I'm still fairly new here and am not used to passenger trains over 12 vehicle length

[smallspy]

30 cars... you'd think it would make sense to simply add a run or two in season...

You'd think, but it's not the case.

The problem centers in the Rockies, where a competing private enterprise (who runs during the day, on another line, with different equipment catering to a different clientele and on a former VIA route) has successfully blocked every single one of VIA's applications to increase service on the line.

Ideally, VIA would be running 6-day/week service on the line, at least during the busy season. Alas, we are stuck with a service whose frequencies border on useless for local travel running trains that are too long to efficiently operate.

Dan

[mtltransitguy]

You'd think, but it's not the case.

The problem centers in the Rockies, where a competing private enterprise (who runs during the day, on another line, with different equipment catering to a different clientele and on a former VIA route) has successfully blocked every single one of VIA's applications to increase service on the line.

Ideally, VIA would be running 6-day/week service on the line, at least during the busy season. Alas, we are stuck with a service whose frequencies border on useless for local travel running trains that are too long to efficiently operate.

Dan

I've always wondered about that.

Who does VIA have to apply to and who blocks the requests?

If we are to get people out of their cars and all that stuff, the interest of a private corporation running a tourist operation should not get in the way of a public corporation running an operation that benefits people other than tourists.

On another note, is this section on the site new?

[smallspy]

I've always wondered about that.

Who does VIA have to apply to and who blocks the requests?

I can't recall the agency that VIA has to apply to - it might even just be Council - but time and time again Rocky Mountaineer Vacations has stepped in the way. They also had a former MP, Jim Gouk, seemingly in their pockets and willing to step up anytime VIA asked to expand service.

If we are to get people out of their cars and all that stuff, the interest of a private corporation running a tourist operation should not get in the way of a public corporation running an operation that benefits people other than tourists.

Well, herein is the problem, isn't it? The Canadian, as it is currently run, is not set up to benefit the vast majority of Canadians on its route - it is a defacto long-distance tourist train.

How do we solve this? Do we run another train, on a daily basis, that is all coach and has cheaper fares? Do we only run trains where they are most frequently used for local service, such as across the prairies and through northern Ontario?

On another note, is this section on the site new?

Yes.

Dan

[dowlingm]

Do we run another train, on a daily basis, that is all coach and has cheaper fares? Do we only run trains where they are most frequently used for local service, such as across the prairies and through northern Ontario?

It would be interesting to see the yield from different parts of the route. It could be that Rockies passengers who alight/board at Edmonton are subsidising the train the rest of the way...

[smallspy]

It could be that Rockies passengers who alight/board at Edmonton are subsidising the train the rest of the way...

It's more likely that the people in Silver and Blue who are making the trip from one end to the other are the ones subsidizing the rest.

Dan

[railbus]

IIRC in 1996 or 97 VIA had intended to increase service through the mountains to 6 days a week and their plan was blocked by the Transport Minister (David Anderson?) of the day. He reasoned that the government and taxpayer funds should not be used to compete with private enterprise. So I think the status quo will remain in place for a very long time until such time as the gov't gets involved and makes major changes to respond to lobbyists of some sort or other. We should all be used to very reactive governments by now and lobbyists know this very well. Unfortunately the rail lobby in this country is not supported by the masses, for various reasons, so there you have it.

[firequall]

On average, how well does the Canadian arrive into Union Station on time? I'm thinking of taking the train down from Parry Sound/Muskoka to Belleville in October and the schedule gives me a two hour layover. Would there be a pretty good chance that I will make my connection given the Canadian's constant delays? If not, would I be better off taking the Northlander from Bracebridge or Gravenhurst?

[Shaun]

On average, how well does the Canadian arrive into Union Station on time? I'm thinking of taking the train down from Parry Sound/Muskoka to Belleville in October and the schedule gives me a two hour layover. Would there be a pretty good chance that I will make my connection given the Canadian's constant delays? If not, would I be better off taking the Northlander from Bracebridge or Gravenhurst?

Any news on the second F40 to be rebuilt? As for LRC cars how many are currently in rebuild? There is a prototype somewhere?

[smallspy]

On average, how well does the Canadian arrive into Union Station on time? I'm thinking of taking the train down from Parry Sound/Muskoka to Belleville in October and the schedule gives me a two hour layover. Would there be a pretty good chance that I will make my connection given the Canadian's constant delays? If not, would I be better off taking the Northlander from Bracebridge or Gravenhurst?

Neither the Canadian nor the Northlander have been running particularly well of late, it seems. From what I've been seeing on other forums and lists, they've been on-time an average of 65% or so.

Any news on the second F40 to be rebuilt? As for LRC cars how many are currently in rebuild? There is a prototype somewhere?

6402 is the second F40 to be rebuilt, and is supposed to be released in the next couple of months (I last heard in June that it was just about finished).

3452 was the first LRC car to be rebuilt, but I haven't heard or seen anything about it.

Dan

[A. Wong]

Saw a VIA train leaving Edmonton today.

[mike from edmont...]

Saw a VIA train leaving Edmonton today.

Wonder if that may have been the Green Party "Whistle Stop" tour. Great idea, brings back memories of the old days

[smallspy]

Wonder if that may have been the Green Party "Whistle Stop" tour. Great idea, brings back memories of the old days

Doubtful - the Green Party simply tied an extra car onto the eastbound Canadian.

Dan