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King County Metro - Seattle, Washington


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#1 Orion VIII

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 08:03 PM

I was watching KOMO from Seattle and a story said that a Community Transit bus was invovled in an accident with a driver who lost control while sending a text message.

I saw an RTS that did not appear to be damaged at all.

Use this thread to discuss King County Metro and Community Transit.
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#2 A. Wong

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 08:06 PM

People who text while driving are stupid.

King County Metro is rich and doesn't achieve good fuel economy with the hybrid DE60LFs.

Community Transit has nice new Inveros.

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#3 M. Parsons

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 09:09 PM

Community Transit has nice new Inveros.


That are not liked by many!

#4 M. Wright

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 10:14 PM

That are not liked by many!


Most people who don't like them never rode them I find. (Well atlest thats the situation when it comes to Ottawas Inveros)
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#5 M. Parsons

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 02:24 AM

Most people who don't like them never rode them I find. (Well atlest thats the situation when it comes to Ottawas Inveros)


Well considering Community Transit OPERATES them and they don't like them... Apparently...
I would imagine they would know what they like and don't like.
BTW, riding Invero's in Winnipeg confirms my dislike for the bus... I have rode them in Ottawa, Burlington and Winnipeg now...

#6 M. Wright

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 10:00 AM

Well considering Community Transit OPERATES them and they don't like them... Apparently...
I would imagine they would know what they like and don't like.
BTW, riding Invero's in Winnipeg confirms my dislike for the bus... I have rode them in Ottawa, Burlington and Winnipeg now...


Are the ones in Winnipeg the first gen Invero or second gen? Ottawa and Community Transit operates the second gen.
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#7 M. Parsons

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 12:15 PM

Are the ones in Winnipeg the first gen Invero or second gen? Ottawa and Community Transit operates the second gen.


What does it matter? I dislike them either way.

#8 M. Wright

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 06:33 PM

What does it matter? I dislike them either way.


It's just like the LFS, First Gen is really bad while the Second Gen is improved.

But I don't totally love the Inveros, I just like them as my favorite LF. HFs are my favorite.

Now Fishbowls I totally love. They are reliable and gives a great ride and aren't new!
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#9 Enviro 500

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 01:41 AM

It's just like the LFS, First Gen is really bad while the Second Gen is improved.

But I don't totally love the Inveros, I just like them as my favorite LF. HFs are my favorite.

Now Fishbowls I totally love. They are reliable and gives a great ride and aren't new!

I've rode on a Burlington Invero back in August during my visit..............they're alright, in fact, they left a very distinct impression in my head!

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#10 general682002

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 12:39 PM

I've rode on a Burlington Invero back in August during my visit..............they're alright, in fact, they left a very distinct impression in my head!

Dave


Rode all 3 Inveros except Winnipeg (same powertrain as Burlington) and they are ok, more of a plastic cheapo bus and unreliable rear door. St. Catharines and London are still dealing with body and engine problem. Electrical is not much.

At least Martin got his wish that Invero will be killed once the last batch of Ottawa Invero delivers.

More and more transit system are sticking to LF because of economical issues! Where as HF, it will be a rare to see in much future times!

As of April 2009, I have finally rode Nova Classic T-drive, two types of different engine! Which ones is better? Series 50 all the way man!

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#11 M. Wright

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 10:21 PM

Rode all 3 Inveros except Winnipeg (same powertrain as Burlington) and they are ok, more of a plastic cheapo bus and unreliable rear door. St. Catharines and London are still dealing with body and engine problem. Electrical is not much.

At least Martin got his wish that Invero will be killed once the last batch of Ottawa Invero delivers.


Were still getting them. <_<

Slowly though. I think it might be because the provinal government no longer funds bus buys. (Well I'm not sure about this but I remember there was a discussion on this a while ago. Feel free to correct me on this.)

Also do remember that 4201 was the first of the second generation Inveros. That period when no one bought Inveros was because NFI wasn't selling them as it was getting the bugs fixed. (Well all bugs except the rear door)

Apparently we were going to get Inveros back in 2002 but NFI said it was back in the design phrase. :)
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#12 M. Parsons

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 04:34 AM


At least Martin got his wish that Invero will be killed once the last batch of Ottawa Invero delivers.


Meh. I think the Invero is an interesting bus. I enjoyed *seeing* them in Ottawa, Burlington, and Winnipeg. I just dislike riding them, and I think the whole concept was flawed from the beginning and has ended up being an expensive project for New Flyer. I can't help but wonder if they've even made money off of the Invero's after all of the prototypes... R&D... I believe warranty work from some of the systems that first got them.... All for what they call a premium bus... When transit systems often purchase buses based upon the lowest bid.
Since then.... Instead of trying to reinvent the bus, New Flyer went out and changed the front and rear of the X30LF, X40LF, and X60LF. I'm sure New Flyer has delivered or has on order more LFR's than it has sold Invero's. If they don't, I'm sure it won't be long until the LFR does surpass the Invero.

#13 BCT-3122-D800-10240

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 03:05 PM

Apparently we were going to get Inveros back in 2002 but NFI said it was back in the design phrase. :blink:


Calgary Transit was originally supposed to get 6 Invero's back in 2002 as well, but CT decided at hte last minute to change them back to regular D40LF models. I believe that was a good choice.

#14 general682002

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 08:25 PM

Calgary Transit was originally supposed to get 6 Invero's back in 2002 as well, but CT decided at hte last minute to change them back to regular D40LF models. I believe that was a good choice.


They did made a right choice, otherwise mechanics would just use a sailor tone attitude by kept fixing and fixing the Invero.
More and more transit system are sticking to LF because of economical issues! Where as HF, it will be a rare to see in much future times!

As of April 2009, I have finally rode Nova Classic T-drive, two types of different engine! Which ones is better? Series 50 all the way man!

2011 Charter: Able to manage to attend as there are some good ones to go for!

My Youtube video: www.youtube.com/general682002

My photos: http://www.flickr.co...s/27668078@N07/

#15 M. Wright

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 08:41 PM

They did made a right choice, otherwise mechanics would just use a sailor tone attitude by kept fixing and fixing the Invero.


Well our D60LFs break down more often than our Inveros. From the mechanics I've talked to, (at OC atlest) they like the Invero as it is doesn't break down as often as the rest of our LF buses do. (That being the LFS, VI and D60LFs)

From the sounds of the mechanics, they use a sailor tone attitude towards the D60LFs especially as they are hardest to repair according to that mechanic.

Now that's from a Mechanic.
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#16 general682002

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 12:46 AM

Well our D60LFs break down more often than our Inveros. From the mechanics I've talked to, (at OC atlest) they like the Invero as it is doesn't break down as often as the rest of our LF buses do. (That being the LFS, VI and D60LFs)


Well, the Invero for OC had some several modifications with better PLC and other mechanical components, which is why it's better.
More and more transit system are sticking to LF because of economical issues! Where as HF, it will be a rare to see in much future times!

As of April 2009, I have finally rode Nova Classic T-drive, two types of different engine! Which ones is better? Series 50 all the way man!

2011 Charter: Able to manage to attend as there are some good ones to go for!

My Youtube video: www.youtube.com/general682002

My photos: http://www.flickr.co...s/27668078@N07/

#17 M. Parsons

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 02:00 AM

Well, the Invero for OC had some several modifications with better PLC and other mechanical components, which is why it's better.


Pretty much by the sounds of it... too little, too late...
With the LFR and BRT modifications avalible now...

#18 Puget Sound Rider

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 03:38 PM

King County Metro has a variety of vehicles.

D40LF-100
D60-273
D60LF-30
DE60LF-213
Gillig Phantom: 30'-95 35'-15 40'-395 40' trolley-100
Breda: 1991 Dual mode-59 of which are in the process of being rebuilt and converted to electric only
MAN 60' Trolley-Being retired as the Breda coaches come back...about 15 of them are still around

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#19 Ode of Bund

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 12:13 PM

I was in Seattle on December 31 for a half day excursion, took as many
pictures as I possibly could, and have loads to write about. Athough Seattle
commenced a new streetcar operation in December, it was not my primary objective
during this short trip since I already spent two days in Portland riding their
brothers and sisters, both Portland and Seattle employed the same type of streetcar
which was the Skoda-Inekon Astra model built in the city of Plzen in Czech Republic.

However, seeing much of the debate about the design of trolley-bus and streetcar cross
over special works on several mailing lists, I still consiciously went to the intersections at
Westlake/Virginia and Westlake/Stewart to see for myself how these special
works were constructed. At Westlake/Virginia, one way
eastbound trolley overhead (on Virginia) crosses both northbound and
southbound streetcar overhead (on Westlake), here there was no insulation
what so ever on either trolley or streetcar overhead. The streetcar merged
into a single track between Virginia and Stewart, so at Westlake/Stewart,
there was only one single set of westbound trolley overhead crossing a single
set of streetcar overhead, however this time streetcar overhead was
insulated with two breakers on each side of trolley wires and a jumper
wire was raised high above the street contact wire. The structure of the special
work was different from that used in Edmonton for the trolley and LRT crossing, it
looked much simplified. I did not go as far as Fairview where trolley-bus and streetcar
operated on the same street, and according to Zack Willhoite, there were more trolley
street car interactions.

I rode the converted Breda for the first time. Arriving from Portland by Amtrak Cascade
train, the Union Station (why rail-way stations in U.S. metropolises all called union stations?)
was only one block south of Jackson Street, home to three trolley-bus routes, 7, 14, and 36.
The first arrival was a Alstom-Gillig trolley serving the 7, very attempting, but I was
more determined to get a Breda first. The next arrival was a gruesome Gillig Phantom
diesel painted all in green, prentending to be a vintage street car. The unfortunate Seattle
Waterfront streetcars were squeezed out of their domain in which their barn was converted for
condo development, it would be for a while before the real vintage street cars return.

Shortly after a Breda pulled in, serving a route 7 for as far as Rainier Beach, the real terminal
of route 7 was Prentice Street at 62 Avenue. Although no longer serving the University of
Washington at north, route 7 remained the longest trolley route in Seattle. The serial number
of the coach was 4253, previously from the information of different sources, I was
under the impression that only 46 Bredas would be converted to conventional
trolleys, assuming the serial number of converted Bredas started at 4200
and there were no missing gaps in serial number, 4253 already exceeded the limit widely
circulated among trolley fans. Now I was able to confirm with Zack that indeed as many units
were converted (serial # 4200~4259), to help improve the spare ratio and to have room for
service expansion (no new lines however). I saw a rusty steel pipe that
looked like an exhaustion pipe exposing itself under the lower abdomen on the
passenger side of the coach in front of the rear axle, however if I recalled
correctly, the diesel exhaustion pipe on original Breda was upper mounted,
exactly what kind of pipe it was remained unknown. The ride on converted Breda was
generally fast, smooth, and powerful. When I asked the driver about the puller feature with
electric motor powering the middle axle, and without steering arrangement on the rearmost axle
whether the vehicle would easily jump the curb at tight corners, to which he replied it was an
infrequent occurrence.

My last trip to Seattle was in 2003, four years have gone by, bus fare in Seattle
remained the same at a dollar twenty-five at off peak hours for one zone. When I asked
for a day pass which could be issued by the driver, only to discover that day passes were
only available on weekends. Seattle adopted fare less downtown practice to reduce automobile
dependency in CBD areas and to improve the boarding times, however such practice had a counter
effect outside the realm of downtown. Boarding and deboarding were all done through front
door only on all outbound buses, passengers all seemed to be glued to their seats until the bus
came to a complete stop, fares were then collected at this time from deboarding passengers,
one dollar U.S. currency was more common in bills, which took more time to insert than coins.
Afterwards came the turn of the boarding passengers who had to pay immediately upon their entry,
another precious moment was wasted to insert bills.

At Rainier Beach, I then transfered to a 36 diesel, but jumped off as soon I saw trolley
overhead on Beacon Avenue at Othello. When the bus crossed the Martin Luther King Jr. Way, I saw
the new light rail track, the system was due to commence service in September of 2009. I did not
have a chance to see the famous Seattle transit tunnel, but it must have been fully excavated
and ready for LRT operation since full bus service has already been restored in the tunnel.

At Othello, the Gillig 4105 was already there doing
its layover, took numerous pictures of including a self portrait before
hopping on. During the trip back to downtown, the driver was in a rush
mode. On 3rd Avenue, the coach was following a Breda on the 7,
the Breda failed to switch onto divergent wires before turning onto
Virginia, and my driver failed to observe before attempting to pass the
Breda, both coaches were on the same track, poles collided with a
loud bang before each individual realized his mistake. After the accident, 4105 continued
on as a 1-Kinear and gradually entered more affluent neighborhoods on Queen Anne Hills.
Never had I previously realized how senic this trolley route really was, with plenty of
precipitation to nurture the fertile soil, trees of more than 100 years aligned the streets,
creating a thick canopy which made one easily forgeting this was in the middle of the winter, and
the insertion of trolley-bus into such picturesque surroundings added one more touch of harmouny
into the ambience of an already colorful ink and water painting.

When exploring the the trolley streetcar overhead special works, an unexpected gain was the
understanding of the downtown routings of the 7 and 49 when they were not
interlined. For the 49, the route map was confusing as it showed a sudden end on 1st Avenue.
I saw two Bredas doing layover on Virginia heading east, they were sitting on the west
side of the 3rd Avenue. Initially I thought they would proceed directly
east on Virginia crossing the 3rd Avenue, but on a closer look, I discovered
that their poles were on the overhead that eventually turned south onto the
3rd Avenue, and indeed, when the first Breda left its layover spot, it
turned south onto 3rd Avenue, but only for a very short moment, it quickly
turned west again. Now the exact routing became obvious to me, when coming from University of
Washington, the 49 proceeded west bound on Pine Stree, NB on 1st Avenue, EB on Virginia and doing
its layover. When going back to UW, continued EB on Virginia, SB on 3rd Avenue, WB on Stewart, SB
on 2nd Avenue, EB on Pike, and started to pick up passengers on Pike Street on the east side of the 3rd
Avenue. As for the 7, it went NB on 3rd Avenue, EB on Virginia, SB on 7th Avenue, WB on Stewart, back
to SB on 3rd Avenue. And when the 7 and 49 were interlined, simply NB on 3rd, EB on Pike, and WB on
Pine to SB on 3rd.


#20 M. Parsons

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 01:04 PM

I rode the converted Breda for the first time, the serial number of the
coach was 4259, serving a route 7 and went as far as Rainier Beach only.
Previously from the information of different mailing lists, I was always
under the impression that only 46 Bredas would be converted to conventional
trolleys, assuming the serial numbers of converted Bredas started at 4200
and there were no missing gaps in serial numbers, exactly how many have been
converted? Was 4259 the highest in the series?



From the information I have seen they did 60, so 4259 should be the highest




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